Huh! How do you like that. Somehow I deleted the comment Rantz left on my comment page.
Rantz – I’m sorry. I’ll do my best to pick this up from memory.
So, Armegeddon. If I remember correctly the student had some panic over June 6, 2006, and it’s numerical “significance.” In fact, that seemed to be what sent the student searching for answers.
Well, clearly the world didn’t end, (Or perhaps it did while I was sleeping and I’m now a part of the Matrix.) so I’m not sure where to go with this. How about a cursory overview of Christian eschatology – that is the end of the world – as I, a layperson, understand it?
Everything hinges on the return of Jesus. This is the one thing that ties all the positions together, though there is a fair amount of disagreement in the details.
OK, on the one end of the stick you’ve got the fundamentalists. They take a very, well, literal view of the symbolism found is apocalyptic books like Revelation. They are keen to assign specific people, places and dates to those texts. Think of the Left Behind series, and you have the general idea. Some wind up looking foolish, as one “end of the world” after another passes without event. You could also call them escapists, because most think Christians are getting sucked up into heaven at some point during the course of events.
On the other end you’ve got the humanists. They strip most – if not all – of the supernatural from these same Biblical texts. (At the extreme they will deny the physical resurrection of Jesus.) As a result, the “end of the world” as they see it comes when humanity finally learns to get along. For the humanists, Jesus’ return is strictly metaphorical.
I would not put myself in either of those camps. In fact, this is a place when I’m a bit unsettled in my personal belief. But I’m OK with that. I’ve got enough to busy myself with for now – stuff like grace. However and whenever it all works out, well… it’s not like I get to re-write the script.
I have reposted my comment on my blog Keepers of the Truth more or less as I had posted it to you.
On another question, what is your view of Heaven? Can you describe for me what it will be like when you get there (I’m assuming you will, knowing you as I do).
Rantz,
Thanks for reposting. I dont’ have any idea what happened. That’ll teach me to much around with things.
Heaven? I’m looking forward to weightlessness and harp lessons.
Seriously, what do you make of these words from Jesus?
That is an interesting passage. It got me to reference back to the story of Lot as I didn’t know it as well in true sense. I’m assuming that has more to do with the coming of the armegeddon than Heaven.
What it does tell me is that we need to figure out where it was that Jesus died as that will tell us where to look for the signs of the armegeddon. People have said that the signs will all be there, but I don’t think that they always realize that a sign in St Louis most likely means nothing. Also, the date is not something that is fortold. There is no hint or mention to it. Also, it doesn’t make it sound like it will have to be a world-wide thing. Maybe little disasters are what he’s talking about. The examples he gives are as such. Hiroshema, or Krakatoa (Oh, fire from the sky), San Fran earthquake, or even Chicago fire could all be little mini-armegeddons… Hmmm… I like that idea. Whenever there is an area he doesn’t like he just erases. Kinda like when you are playing Sims. I have a great story I read which paralles this. I’ll have to look it up and post a reference.
I take a fundamentalist view of the Bible as it would be impossible to assume that anyone could guess what god might have had in mind when he said the things he did. I mean, what kind of good parent doesn’t explain the rules to their children in clear language so they can make sure they know right from wrong?
As I’ve forewarned, my position on how a lot of this works out is in flux. But, I’m inclined to say that Armageddon, i.e. the end of the world, and the arrival of Heaven, i.e. the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven depending on which Gospel you are reading, are one in the same. We’re talking about the time when God’s plan is fulfilled, when everything that is out of whack gets fully and finally set right. It’s “shalom” to the nth degree.
Now, let me skip to your last paragraph and answer your question: A parents who’s talking about sex in front of their four-year old.
Seriously, I think we must be careful and take into consideration the particulars of each book in the Bible. By that I mean the answers to the following questions are vital: Who wrote the book? To whom was it written? When? Into and from what circumstances? Why? For example, much of the New Testament was written when Christians were at best tolerated and at worst aggressively persecuted by a variety of authorities. Under those circumstances, we might not expect plain and transparent language. Something more obfuscated (Fun word!) would be expected. (I’ll touch more on this in another post.)
Back to the middle paragraph. Some interpret these events as having found their fulfillment when the Temple was destroyed by Rome in 70 CE. Others read much of the present Middle East strife into the text. Neither of those approaches interest me. Here’s what I latch onto. As it was in the days of Noah… Two will be working in a field; one will be taken and the other left behind. The righteous were left behind, and that’s why I’m not an escapist.
If I had to summarize where I stood, I think it would be here: Everything that can be saved (i.e. brought thru Armageddon and into the Kingdom of God) will be saved.
I figure there are two important things to take from it all -
1. Everybody who expected the end of the world around 100 AD, or 1600 AD, or 1830 AD was *right*. That is, *their* world ended – they died. And the worldly things they may have trusted in at the time have died, too. My world will end, too, maybe before I expect, and I must be ready for it.
2. This sad soap opera will not drag on forever. When the time is right, God will wrap it all up. The reality that lasts forever will not be like this.
Trying to get highly specific about interpreting apocolyptic prophecy appears to contradict some things Jesus said, and often seems to be part of a strange psychological power-trip, as the prophecy addicts seem to feel that their “knowledge” gives them a kind of power, even control, as if it’s *their* apocolpyse. (Which it becomes, of course, as the confusing and unknowable Biblical texts are gradually replaced by specific predictions.) They sound almost exactly like nuclear survivalists, and I think we’ve got to be suspicious when “faith” happens to generate the same mindset that does.
Catherine,
I think there’s some real wisdom in your words. However, instead of “unknowable” I think I’d use the word “unownable.” (which my spellchecker thinks I made up… along with spellchecker.) The texts betray any attempt to own them, and in so doing reveal the limitless nature of God.